Brenda Watson: 0:00

A pet wellness is going to grow, I don't know 10 times better, more than human. You know the whole shift with you know the baby boomers and their pets, and even millennials, and all that with their pets. We love them, like, like I've said, what's going to happen. This is the, the, the.

Tina Smith: 0:16

What I'm reading is Welcome to the natural products marketer podcast.

Amanda Ballard: 0:24

I'm Tina and I'm Amanda, and we're here to make marketing easier for natural products businesses, so you can reach more people and change more lives.

Tina Smith: 0:34

Hi there, brenda. It's so nice to have you on the podcast today. We're looking forward to this conversation. Thank, you.

Brenda Watson: 0:42

I'm so grateful to be here. I'll share my stories and everything with you.

Amanda Ballard: 0:47

So most of you listening have heard of Brenda Watson. You've probably heard her speak. You've sold her products for years and years. Brenda is definitely the digestive queen of the industry and we're so excited to have you here, brenda. One thing that we always love to talk to our guests about is how they got into the natural products industry, because I feel like most of us have a similar story where we had some sort of health crisis that got us into that. Are you in that boat or do you have a different story?

Brenda Watson: 1:18

No, I have that story Just much further back than some of the people in it today. My story goes back into the 80s. So, yes, I had a similar. I'll share that with you. Okay, yes, I started.

Brenda Watson: 1:36

I was born with autoimmune and did not know all the years that all through my elementary school, high school, all that I was sick all the time, given tons of antibiotics as a result of that. I my elementary school, high school, all that I was sick all the time, given tons of antibiotics as a result of that. I didn't know it back then, but my gut was ruined and about I guess it was around 1986, 87, I walked into a health food store one day down in South Florida and said whatever's happened in my life with traditional doctors is not working anymore and I need help. And, believe me, back there then there wasn't much you know to help us with, but there was information, there was diet changes, there was juicing back then, things like that that I began to do personally for myself. That changed my life. You know. It literally transitioned me into another life and as a result of that I'm like, hmm, I want to help others. It just gave me that desire to help others. So I went back to school in the late 80s, early 90s, you know, for nutrition, colonics, colon hydrotherapy, which is legal in the state of Florida, and I apprenticed in natural health clinics over the early 90s and then finished my schooling in herbology and all of that and began to work with clients on detoxification. Specifically, I worked in clinics that we did the colonics, the steaming, the wrapping the body in clay wraps. You know all the different things we did back then. And as a result of that I worked under an apprenticeship for many years and I decided to open my own natural health clinics in about 92, 1992. And I put in five natural health clinics. You know it was Palm Harbor, clearwater, tampa, sarasota and Ormond Beach, over on the East Coast, and I was a CEU provider for the state of Florida. So I taught a lot of these people, especially women transitioning into wanting to be in the natural health field and I could certify them in like colonics and different things like that from the state because I was certified by the state to teach. And so as a result of that, all of these wonderful women ran all my clinics and then, as I became more involved in the health food store industry, they bought those clinics and so they had a life, a great business and a great life and I'm so proud of that really. And so transitioning into that from my poor health and seeing other people get better through the gut Remember when I started actually lecturing for health food stores was maybe 1993.

Brenda Watson: 4:19

I was terrified. I mean, a store in Naples calls me one day and says we want you to come down and teach our customers about constipation. And I went, oh no, I'm not doing that. No, no, no, no. I work in a clinic. You know I can teach you guys in the store about it, but I don't. Really, it's not my thing talking to people. But I did it and that was, you know, when the student's ready, the teacher appears. And I did it that first time and I couldn't stop.

Brenda Watson: 4:48

And that's how I got involved in the natural products industry, because in a clinic see I am at that time, you know, we had a lot of single herbs and, being an herbologist, I began to put herbs together in formulas and I was using those in the clinic with my clients. Well, my husband said to me one day you need to put that in a health food store. And I'm like, oh, okay. So I boxed up my first kit, which was a parasite cleanse and an enzyme and a fiber, and I put it in a health food store and Renew Life Formulas was born from that and then I began to get out in the industry and educate the stores and consumers. For the last since 1995, 94, 95. Wow.

Tina Smith: 5:33

Oh man, listen. This is not on our list to ask, but just as you're talking about it, I'm so curious. You have such a wealth of knowledge from the industry. What's changed the most over the years that you've been in this industry?

Brenda Watson: 5:47

What's changed the most? People are sicker than ever. I actually had this vision when I was younger that you know, as we got along people would get better, but due to the with pharmaceuticals and toxins and all that, they're much worse because now our second, our generations after us, are born with autoimmune war and I think that's a problem. But what's changed with the industry is is still the. I took sort of the, the think tank of you know the creativity, whether it's a supplement or the food or what it is, that's still there. What has changed and turned over is a lot of the people, kind of the people like me, who were the founders of it, have moved on, you know, retired, their children have come into it and it's changed in a little bit that because, you know, private equity came in and bought everybody out to a great degree and big businesses in there and Amazon has, you know, done what it's done to our industry.

Brenda Watson: 6:51

The big change is I don't see as much of, I would say as it's being passed down to different people, that sometimes that I don't know that kind of caring love that I feel this industry still has. I don't want to say it does not have, but I think it's people like me and other people that are still in the industry that can pass that on to these new owners or new business people that are independent retailers. So that's what's changed. What changed is Amazon private equity.

Brenda Watson: 7:25

And then I think, sometimes people coming into this that aren't like as like they didn't come from the poor health, you know what I mean. They came, they're coming from it, from a business, which is fine, you know what I mean. That is fine. You got to make money and have a life, but that's what I've seen the difference in. And putting that heartfelt energy back into the stores is what I'd love to see to the owners of it now, like we care, you know the caring, and not that they don't care. I'm not saying it, but that's the. There's a bit of a shift there with that piece.

Amanda Ballard: 8:00

Yeah, yeah, I definitely see that and I'm, you know, a rookie compared to you, but, you know, even just being in the health food stores for, you know, eight years now, kind of just seeing seeing how that transition has taken place, I definitely see it. So you're spot on there. Tell me a little bit more about your journey into starting Vital Planet, because I remember the first time that I heard about Vital Planet you were actually giving us a lecture on the pet supplements and I think you kind of started with that, kind of led into that and then added supplements for the entire family. So I'd love to hear, kind of what your thought process was with that and how that has just blossomed into literally, I mean, a brand for the entire family, which I think is just really cool.

Brenda Watson: 8:50

Well, what happened is, as you and I, we had Renew Life. I had Renew Life and it was about 2015 and we had partners. Things were dicey there and I had a personal tragedy which I'm able to communicate now to people I lost a child. I lost my son in 2015. And so I went into a very terrible time in my life of depression and Renew Life was sold, and I guess you could say that I percolated on that for quite a few years. My husband actually stayed by my side and said Brenda, you know, we've always loved animals right, I've been an animal lover forever and when we left out of Renew Life, I had non-competes. Now I didn't even know who Renew Life sold to, because at that point in time I just had no ability to really communicate well. And so my husband and my son-in-law came over. We got this place where we are now and we started the Vital Planet Pets because of the non-competes, and I thought, wow, this is great, now I can focus on pets. You know I can say more about pets sometimes than we can say about human health. And so we started Vital Planet and you know, I started getting out there like you saw me out, teaching with pets. And you know, guys, I went to a couple of the road shows that Simpa organization puts on during that time and this was probably about, I think maybe 2000, and was it 17, 17, somewhere in there.

Brenda Watson: 10:22

Yeah, at a, at a show, it's retailers in the audience and there's different people up there presenting different subjects, some of them help, some of them business practices and different things. And what I felt in that room with retailers was a bit of fear, right, a bit of fear around Amazon, what's happening to the industry. And I knew map policy. I knew map policy because I had fought it at Renew. And so as I heard these people talking, I said, well, at Vital Planet, we're going to do zero map. And my son-in-law looked at me and I went no, we're going to do zero math.

Brenda Watson: 11:05

And so we came in with the pets and I thought I don't know if I can ever go back in the industry again because I don't know if I've got it inside of me. You know that that passion, that hope, that drive, that that I've always had, I had, it had kind of dwindled in me. But when we got into the human side and then all this science was out there on gut health. You know, the microbiome project was really clamping along and I thought, you know, I would have never, guys, come back in this industry with a Me Too product. Really, I needed new science and I found the new science and so from the animals I thought, wow, probiotics, they're in our animals, they're in us. How many of us love our animals? I mean, I love my animals, I cherish them. So I started with the new science in probiotics with Vital Planet. So now we have the digestive cure for the whole family, right, and that's kind of how it clogged along with Vital Planet.

Brenda Watson: 12:07

But I did it differently Because the map policies and what I saw, the changes in the industry.

Brenda Watson: 12:15

At the time I didn't feel driven as much to do. Before I loved the health food store and I was driven to the health food stores, but now it was a different level of being driven. I wanted to feel like I was part in saving something, not the person that saved it, but a part of it. Because I can feel it. I can feel it from you guys, I can feel it from those of us who care. And that's what started driving me was how can we protect the independent retailer, how can we be a part of the solution, not the problem, and so that piece of it and me staying in digestive care, which is my spot, you know what I know and I intend to stay there, and that's what drove me on was the passion to help the retailer and vendors and manufacturers also to follow suit with what you're going for. I just go for it and I know that everything I need will be dropped in my lap whenever I'm ready for it.

Brenda Watson: 13:31

And so the new science in probiotics came out and I said, oh, I can get out now and train the new train, the health food store retailers, on the new science and a new way to help our microbiome. And then, of course, the whole cleansing concepts and all that that I've had in my being forever came about. So that's, that's how?

Amanda Ballard: 13:53

Yeah, and I'm curious how. How has the pet side of things continued to grow, cause I I've seen that just from the retail perspective that that category seems to continue. Have you added new products to that line since you've started? And kind of, where are you seeing the trajectory with pet wellness?

Brenda Watson: 14:14

Pet wellness is going to grow. I don't know 10 times better, more than human. You know the whole shift with you know the baby boomers and their pets, and even millennials, and all that with their pets. We love them. Like I've said, what's going to happen this is what I'm reading is because we tend to want to do for our pets what we do for ourselves.

Brenda Watson: 14:38

Now, having said that, I want to say something about Vital Planet. We sell supplements for pets. We don't sell treats necessarily. I mean we can take our supplement and pretend it's a treat to the dog because we do chewies and things like that. However, our products and the products that are going to grow in the pet industry are supplements. So, for example, you have a person with you know joint problems, you know and we know. You know hyaluronic acid, we know chondroitin, glucosamine and all the things that we as humans have used for years are now we want to give them to our pets who have hip and joint problems and we don't want to give them fluff. Most of the people out there selling are selling treats. There's very few selling supplements that are therapeutically formulated, and so in Vital Planet, the difference in us and what I see now as a big trajectory in what's going to happen with people in the field I mean people that consumers is. Oh, my dog has a gut dysbiosis or the gut's out of balance. They need a strong probiotic, just like I do. They need a strong hip and joint, just like I do. If they have diarrhea, they don't need to go to the vet, unless it's something in crisis, to get a diarrhea formula. We've got firm stool you know what I mean which is pumpkin, which is natural, and it helps them. So what I'm seeing is pet is going to skyrocket in the coming years.

Brenda Watson: 16:05

Now where are we in the industry? You've got many retailers who have tapped into this, many of them in the independent retailer. But there are hundreds out there, amanda, who have not at all. And you go in and you speak to them and they're like oh, the pet stuff, it's over there in the corner, if they even have it right. And I'm like you don't understand.

Brenda Watson: 16:28

You've got a customer coming in here who wants to do just as much for my Lily and Lacey, my little Lily and Lacey. I want to do as much for them as I do for myself. I don't want to see them suffer with hip and joint problems. I want to do something for me. I've got the awareness. I want to do something preventively to them, you know, so they don't end up with hip and joint problems. You know what I mean.

Brenda Watson: 16:54

So that consciousness is getting ready to really skyrocket because what you see, even on Amazon and on the e-commerce lines, are more treats. But we've got to, you know, just, it takes education to the consumer that there are companies out there that can provide therapeutic supplements like what we have in the health food stores. So my point is, if we could get some of these independent retailers to merchandise it correctly, to put some focus on it, education on it, it would be such a good, not only a revenue stream, a new revenue stream that's going to grow, but something that helps, you know, really helps people and they feel comfortable about helping, you know, their pets.

Tina Smith: 17:38

Well, and the thing I love about that too, Brenda, is if they're already coming to your store for supplements and they have a pet, it's a one-stop shop. They don't have to go somewhere else to look for what they're trying to provide for their pet. And if they're talking to you about their health which mostly they are, because we have this consultative approach in the independent market and so they're going to talk to you about their pets too, Like, hey, they scratch all the time. Do you have anything that might help? Can we try that? And people will spend so much money on their pets for sure.

Brenda Watson: 18:08

Are you kidding? Great, yes, they will. And the thing of it is is, you know if you've got a customer coming in that understands joint, you know they go to this joint, you know the joint section. Here's another thing why not put your pet stuff, cross-merchandise it? Why don't you put it in the human joint place? Why don't you put the pet I don't know diarrhea formula in your digestive care set? Cross-merchandise that. So it begins the awareness for the consumer. Right? The consumer says, oh, that's a supplement. Oh, okay, that's the way we start the process. That's another way we're teaching the independent retailer too, like how to merchandise these things, not just sticking it in the corner by the pet side but putting it in the human side and begin to teach this consumer coming in. There's supplements for your animals, preventively, you know. Or if they're having an acute problem, they've got a supplement for that. So it's very important, that whole education process to the retailer.

Amanda Ballard: 19:14

Yeah, you know you've mentioned independent retailers multiple times just in the last few minutes and I think one of the things that struck out to me the most when I was on your website preparing for this interview was that you are probably the only brand that I can think of off the top of my head that has a find a health food store at the top of their website, food store at the top of their website. And you know other brands have store locators but you have to dig for them and all of that, but this is specifically for a health food store. It's not, you know, just any, any store that they could possibly found in what? What is it that makes the independent channel so important to you? Because to me that just screams we care about the independence.

Brenda Watson: 19:57

Well, what makes it so important is, you know, going back to my history and seeing and I'm not talking. It doesn't have to be a big independent retailer, it can be a small mom and pop shop. But for my story, my journey into health food, those people supported me. You know, they heard my story. They heard my story, they heard my experience, they listened to me, they took on my concepts. They let me into their stores to train their consumers as well as their employees. And I see that we can't lose that. We can't lose that heart and soul of our industry. So that's what makes me move toward the independent, because of my journey. That's who supported me all through my 20-something years, 25 years that I tromped across this country Before you know. You look at, say, sprouts. Sprouts was a fruit stand when I started. I mean, I was back before Whole Foods was barely started. You know what I mean. So I come way, way back and they supported me, they listened to me. The consumers I love the consumers that come into independent retailers because they're looking.

Brenda Watson: 21:11

I call it the destination of last resort because here's what it is. They have health issues. They've tried to solve them through the medical model. It has not worked. That's what happened to me. I tried to solve my problems, even though it was way back. We didn't have a lot. I mean, the only thing on the shelf back then was psyllium husk I mean seriously and Sony 7. There was no digestive care. I built that digestive care section, the SKUs and all of that in there over a period of probably 15 years. We came out and then other companies followed, which was great. You know, we got a whole digestive care set across. And so when I go back to you know your roots, you go back to who supported you. You go back to who you want to continue to support. It's because the consumer coming into those stores are looking for answers, because they've been turned down in every way, and we're there.

Tina Smith: 22:08

Man, I love that so much. We are 100% behind supporting the independent retail channel and we want to help them grow. Sometimes it feels like they're diminishing and like some people are not making it or they're just slightly surviving, and we would love to see the whole channel thrive. And it feels great to know that there are manufacturers out there, like you guys that are fully supportive of that independent channel. And that makes me think, oh, go ahead, sorry, go ahead. Well, it just makes me think about, um, what independent channels could do to make it even more attractive for people like you to support them and wholeheartedly invest in that channel.

Brenda Watson: 22:53

Well, you know, I'll tell you, I had a lot of you know how you have the lights on and one of the things I never until um, probably the last, this must be about five years ago and I was in my head I'm wondering like, how is this going to happen to the independent retailer with you know, when I first cognited on the map, policy and Amazon and what we were going to do and how, I saw a lot of fear there and so what I thought of is I go to the store but I'm traveling out. I'm now pioneering the new probiotics into the independence and I'm in Ohio and I walk into this health food store that I'm doing some training in, independent, been there 40 years, you know children's there advice there, and I see that she has totally revamped her selection of supplements and I kind of didn't understand it. I mean, she had a beautiful store but what she had done, and others like her have done, is they have found lines Okay, maybe some of them a little bit newer, that you know, whether it's a full line supplement or, like us, digestive care and what they've done is they fill the store with innovative lines that aren't mass market lines. Okay, this is my. I did an interview this will go back to this. I did an interview probably 15 years ago and somebody brought it to me the other day I think it's on YouTube and I was in Toronto because, you know, we had a big company in Canada and I was in Toronto and someone stuck a microphone in my and asked me this question and said what do you see as the future of the independent retailer? And I didn't know what to say because back then we were flourishing and everything was good. But this is what I said must have come from God, right? What I said was I think that the independent retailer will become the boutique of the world, in our world, in the US at least. I think that you will go there for unique supplements, unique formulas that haven't been bought out by mass market or that aren't on Amazon. Where on Amazon, I mean, you'll trade your probiotic for a $2 reduction in price, regardless of whether you're getting a supplement. That's quality or not. You're all about price, and I'm not saying that I don't totally have heart for people with financial considerations, because I do so.

Brenda Watson: 25:20

I went back to that store and I thought, man, what a creative woman that is, because what she did was anything in there that was heavily discounted online, or anything in there. She found this wonderful substitute for it in a better formula, a better supplement. You see what I mean? And I'm like wow. And that's when it came on to me that what I had said 15 years ago was probably going to be what happens.

Brenda Watson: 25:49

However, you said that a lot of these retailers haven't caught on yet. They really haven't. They still think they've got to have this and that and I can name. And I think too, on the vendor side of it, on the manufacturing side of it, we need, like Vital Planet needs, to work with this company and this company and this company together as people holding the map policy, and if anyone listening doesn't understand that it's keeping your discounts at whatever level you determine, is your company online and you hold to it. And so I was looking at it and thinking why don't we come together as manufacturers? You know what I mean On that end of it.

Brenda Watson: 26:31

But what I saw that woman did in that store and I asked her. I said you know you've done a really good job in here of replacing anything that was on your shelf. That's now, you know, on Amazon. She said I work at it. She said I can find something in every category that's a better product and that has, that has consciousness and ethics behind what they're doing to help the people. Because, ultimately, what they're doing to help the people, because, ultimately, what are we doing here? We're here to serve our brothers and sisters. That's what we come into this planet for. And again going back to the, you know why we're here. We're here to help people that are lost, sometimes with their health. If you don't have your health, you have very little in life and, believe me, I've been on both sides of the coin with that and I watch people over the years. So what's going to happen? We have to take the people who are already doing this and make them a model.

Brenda Watson: 27:32

And here's the model, guys, and for those of you still out there that are still trying the old model and I don't know whether they're scared to change, I don't know whether it's too much work to go in and do all the research, but you've got guys out there, you've got stores out there now who have done the research. They don't even look. You go into them and maybe you go into one of the more chain accounts that we you know the big chains and you don't see this product and that product and that product, but they got a better product to replace it and the good thing that they have is a loyal customer base. So you walk into a health food store and you're a consumer, right, and you walk in there and you go okay, I've got I don't know gas and bloating or I've got joint issues or I've got headache, whatever they've got, you've got someone there listening to them, listening to them and helping them on their health journey, and that's what this is about. So if we don't come together and become a boutique, does it take more work? Because I'll tell you what consumers want. Back to this point. They want to walk into a store, they want to talk to whoever somebody on the floor or the owner and they want to know that. They want to know what they take. They want to know what do you take? And that's what people say to me what do you take? Well, this is what I take. You know what I mean. So they trust. See, there's trust, and the trust is where this is the crux of what we have in this industry. We have trust to a consumer that they're going to walk in there and I'll tell you how it's manifesting.

Brenda Watson: 29:06

Today I'm out talking about cleansing in the health food stores and you know you would think cleansing would be more for the younger people or the. You know I'm having people that, because it's trending on, you know, on Instagram and Facebook and all that, I have people that are 80 years old cleansing. I mean I'm shocked. I'm like cleansing, you know. But the point of ideas is they see cleansing on Instagram or Facebook. They don't go buy the cleanse that's on Instagram or Facebook. They go to the health food store, go buy the cleanse that's on Instagram or Facebook. They go to the health food store, right, and they ask that health food store owner what cleanses do you sell? Because they trust them, because buying some unknown product there's probably a hundred of them a day online, because I watch that very closely to see what's coming up and not all of them. I'm not saying all of them are bad at all, I'm just saying that they don't trust that, but they trust that independent retailer.

Brenda Watson: 30:00

We cannot let that go away and that's where my passion and journey is. From what Vital Planet can do. What I would like to see is us join together like what you guys are doing. You're doing a fantastic job of getting the message out there, but we've got to get to these independent retailers who have had I don't know earplugs in, I don't know what they've been doing, but they haven't seen it and they're still waiting on things to happen. Now that, have you know, with these other companies that have been bought out and gone mass market and all that, they're still thinking, oh well, they're the end, all be all and they're not. Their products have their formulas have been down, you know been, they're not as good as they used to be. Because you can't do the same margins in, you know, mass market as you can do in an independent retailer.

Brenda Watson: 30:45

And in the independent retailer, if you're setting up as a new company or a new brand, you have to put the model together. Now the model is education from us to the store. Ok, you can't throw products on a shelf without going into the store and educating, just like you guys know educating the employees of the retailer on your product. So if you're going into this market, it's not a throw it on like a Walmart or something, it's. You know, I got to get in there. I got to teach these people how to sell this, how this helps the consumer and that's a big part. I don't know if that's the part that the new people understand or not, but we do. I do it some too on social media. I do that piece of it. Now I'm trying to I'm trying to get myself better at that where I can get to the consumer and explain to them.

Brenda Watson: 31:38

And you talked about finding the retailer online. I don't have third party sellers on Amazon. We have one site on Amazon. It's us, and we sell at full retail and sometimes over, so they're actually getting a better deal in the health food store. They're getting with us. Now I can do that. I can say I'm not, you know, say I'm not going into Walmart, I'm not going into really Whole Foods and all that because I don't need it. If you do it correctly, you can take, if we can get the correct.

Brenda Watson: 32:10

You know, I think the key is identifying the market. What's left? And I probably think maybe, because I think probably maybe 10 to 20 percent. Have, you know, clothes gone under? But there's still a plethora of stores out there. There are institutions you look down here in Clearwater, florida, nature's Food Patch that's never going away. I mean, you know all these stores Ed Nutrition World, chattanooga, never going away. These are institutions, they're community, they're where people go because they trust. So this is where, if you're coming into this market, I'm suggesting that you have the education tools and you know you have to develop that to get in these stores and not only help the retailer but help their consumer at the same time. So you've got to kind of do all of it. My husband used to say Brenda. I used to ask Brenda what we needed to do to promote the product and she'd say everything.

Amanda Ballard: 33:07

Well you know it's interesting to me and I've seen this play out in real life, where the exact thing that you're talking about you know this brand they've, you know they've been bought out, they're not supporting the independent anymore. You, you do the research, you find a replacement. You know there's the brands that are going to always come in and support the independent. There are, there's always going to be another, another supporter of that channel. That is oftentimes better than the brand that decided to leave.

Amanda Ballard: 33:42

And then the other thing that I love too, is that the independent retailer they're, they're so strong in community and they want everyone else to win, like they don't view each other as competition, and so it's like I'm just, you know, thinking back to those those Soho road shows where it's like you have retailers just telling everyone their secrets of what they do to do well, and they're like do what I do, like it's working for me.

Amanda Ballard: 34:08

They're more than happy to get on the phone with you for an hour and tell you everything that they know. No, because that's how we all win is when all of these independent stores start thriving, the whole industry thrives and those brands that support the independents they're going to thrive. And I love what you said about an alliance type thing with the manufacturers that also support these brands. I think that's. The other thing is, whether people know it or not, there's this solid group of manufacturers that are always going to support the independent channel, and sometimes they just get lost in the noise, I think. So something that they could do to you know, kind of band together. I love that idea.

Brenda Watson: 34:53

I think you know, I was hearing a story about a major company, mass market. I was hearing a story about a major company, mass Market, and they cut a lot of their natural educators, salespeople in the natural independent industry stores, and their thing, when they laid off like 100 people, was we just can't afford that business anymore and I'm like, oh my goodness, what a thought. You can't afford to go in and take a product that you've developed that helps a human being and go in and educate a store on why it's beneficial. That's really sad. You know what I mean. But I would love to be part and I feel like I am, but more a part of an alliance, you know, more a part of carrying that message Because, again, I think a lot of them, you know it just takes time.

Brenda Watson: 35:45

You know a lot of them are waking up, have woken up a long time ago, but we've got a lot of stores out there, guys that have not, and we've got to get to them. How we do it, I mean I know we do it through, like the SEMPA organization does a lot, but they're regional. You know what I mean. You've got the Midwest, that's regional, you know. So you've got to.

Brenda Watson: 36:04

You know, I've always wondered you know, in our organization, like, for example, in SEMPA, using something like that organization or any organization so with you know their meetings and your education things that occur in helping you know to move into the direction, in education, of a different way to a store. And I know you know at the shows they do marketing and they do this, but I don't know how we get down into that nitty gritty you know what I mean and start saying, ok, what are you doing? You know, what are you doing as an individual to support the industry and the vendors and the and the manufacturers that really want to do the right thing and help people? That's that's why we're here, that's right.

Tina Smith: 36:54

Brenda, we feel the same way and it's so fun that you are talking about this, because that's one reason that we did this podcast. We were like we need practical steps that people can do so that they can start to grow their revenues, so that they can help more people. So you can't do it without money. And we're working with a store right now that's a little bit smaller and she says to me like I would give the supplements away for free if I could help people, change people's lives. But unfortunately I also have a family, so there has to be some revenue growth there as well. But in the end, we are all here to help people and change their lives and give them something that they haven't found before in mass medical or mass market, right. So we're we are trying to equip these stores to be found and to help them grow their revenues so that they can touch those individual lives.

Brenda Watson: 37:48

Right and I think, too, you know it's helped on a lot of things. I think if you get into pricing and things like that, that's another concept you know they're looking at. You know having a line in there that's heavily discounted, they can buy it cheaper online than you can even sell it for. You know what I mean. So you've got to go in and teach them what we call real margins. What is your real? Because? Okay, so, for example, you're taking a Vital Planet product. We're not discounting. We do give discounts to the retailers. Obviously we want to. We'd like to see, with that discount that we pass on, that they pass some of it on to their customers, which most of them do. I'm not saying that. But their perception sometimes is that product that they've got on the shelf, which is heavily discounted online, which they're selling already at 30 or 35% off, whatever they're selling it for is not the real money they're putting in their pocket. Do you see what I mean? Because we're operating on a margin that we give to them and they're operating off of that margin. That's more real, because the person is not going online to buy the product at a discount and that's the tragedy of it that the customer goes in there and will stand. I've seen them stand right at that counter get all the education from that store and punch that button and buy it on Amazon. And I said to a woman one day do you know what that does to this store? What you just did? Do you know what that does? That puts them out of business. Did you know what that does? That puts them out of business. I said they spend time, they spend money and the other piece of it is if we can get. This is the other piece. That's a bit aggravating is the fact that I have stores that don't want to send their educating. They don't want to pay the money for their employees to be the hour that we might want to do or the 30 minutes that we might want to do. They're not going to pay their employees. So now we're going in with gas cards and, you know, a gift card or something like that to incentivize them to be able to give it to them. Or I can give it to the employee you know, to incentivize them to get the education. You know, to incentivize them to get the education. That is the crux of this. How willing is that retailer going to be on letting their employee be educated.

Brenda Watson: 40:08

Now I understand the way of the world now that people come and they go and the turnovers there, especially in the smaller stores. But what I think with the smaller stores that's critical that they have, that some of maybe the larger stores don't, is they have the ability to get involved with their community and customer See, that, I think, could be a lot of the problem that's missing here. They don't have those ways in their head. You know a lot of these people I've seen over the years in the natural products industry that have stores. They're not good business people and in some ways I think that's why many of them have gone the way of the work. Gone by the wayside is because they were in an industry that was constantly growing and then when it came down the rubber met the road. They didn't use the tools or tools. They were taught to be able to take that business forward when the times got tough, you know. So the ones that are out there left and I think at this day and age, anybody that's out there left. They got to be pretty strong, you know, as an independent. So I think what's needed is how do we teach them to connect to their market to come outside.

Brenda Watson: 41:17

I've got people right now in stores that I say you need to put this sign there, this sign here. You know, a simple thing, simple thing will give you simple things. So there's a store and they're doing, they're plodding along, you know, selling every month. So I'm like, how can we use marketing, how can we do something to pull that customer? Because, let's say, they're in a shopping center and there's people walking by, right, maybe they come in the healthy store, maybe they don't, but a simple sandwich board out on the front that says got constipation. Guess what? The sales of that store in one year went from 16,000 to the manufacturer to 46 one sign wow it wasn't a busy sign, but people will react and want to do what helps them.

Brenda Watson: 42:17

So if someone's got constipation gas and blo, bloating pain you know got pain come inside and talk to us about it. That simple, it's not complicated. So it's little things that I think they need to be taught. Where they get real, you know closed in about it, or they're not marketers, I mean, you know they're just not and that's where people like you come in and teach them. This is what you need to be doing. You need a newsletter. I mean I've got a newsletter. Guys that goes out to I think it's 30, 3500 people. It's consumers that have signed up for our newsletter and then it's retailers. I've got a 49% open rate. That's pretty high. I had no idea we had that open rate on it, pretty high. I had no idea we had that open rate on it.

Brenda Watson: 43:03

That little piece of whether, if it's an old timer that doesn't have those types of technology, there's ways they can get that and you know that that type of technology are they. The other piece of it is right now on Facebook. So I start doing videos and then come to find out. This store here wants my video on their Facebook. This store over here wants my video on their Facebook. Oh, on their Facebook. I must have 50 stores now using my videos from Facebook, because I'm talking about, maybe, a concept of cleansing or, you know, probiotics or something like that, and they could put that on their Facebook. They've got to learn how to do that. It's pretty simple, you know.

Brenda Watson: 43:41

So, getting them engaged with their I think, with their community more and teaching them the tools simple tools, they're not complicated and you know, the best stores sometimes are the ones out into in a rural community. You know that, the best ones. I've got some in Tennessee that knock it out of the park, you know, and they're in a rural area, a very rural area, and that's what we've always had out in the middle of Nebraska, in the middle of Nebraska, the middle of Wyoming, because they're institutions you know what I mean and people go there, but there is the small mom and pop. They need help and they need ideas, but they need to be able to bring the ideas to fruition.

Brenda Watson: 44:22

You know, it's like sometimes when you try something, I think, and it doesn't work the first time, it's like you know you sling everything against the wall that you can. Everything's not sticking right, you got to accept that. But we always learn from mistakes. You know, that didn't work, let's try it this way. That didn't work, let's try it this way. And sometimes I see people try one something one time and it doesn't work and they throw it out. You know, and I think we got to teach them. It's a little bit of a persistence, you know patience, working through what works in your community too. You know, I think that's very you know.

Amanda Ballard: 44:57

Well, you know it's interesting that you brought up the, the concept of, you know, not wanting to pay your employees to sit through an hour-long training with an educator um, that just kills me. But you know, what's so interesting is, you know, when I first started in this industry, I had no knowledge of it, like I I actually was. I I refused to take supplements. I'm like this I don't need these. You know, I'm in my early 20s, I don't need these. You know, I'm in my early 20s, I don't need these. And it was because of attending these mandatory trainings that I had to go to. It's like this is part of your job, you will get trained. I started taking like 10 supplements a day in a matter of weeks because I was like this is amazing and it sparked. Well, I mean, you know, here we are eight years later still still doing was like this is amazing and it sparked. Well, I mean, you know, here we are eight years later still doing this thing, which is fantastic.

Amanda Ballard: 45:49

But I think, at the end of the day, it's something that these independents can do, that these big box stores are never going to do. They can invest in their people in as simple as here's an hour off the sales floor to go listen to a training and it shows a level of investment in that individual that's also going to benefit the store. It's not just oh well, you know, if I send them off to this training and what if they leave in two months? It's like so what? You could have made several hundred more dollars because they got educated on that product Like. To me it seems like a win-win, no matter what, even if they do leave. You know you don't have to fly them to all the trade shows and all of that with you from the get-go, but it's investing in those little moments that's going to leave a lasting impression.

Tina Smith: 46:35

There's an old adage that says you can either train them and they might leave you, or you can not train them, but what if they stay?

Brenda Watson: 46:46

That's a good thought and you know you're right and what we do as a company is, when we go in for the trainings, we usually have a broker or we have someone with us that can work the floor. I tell them. Tell me if you're concerned because you're pulling people off the floor. Tell me if you're doing that and I'll put somebody on the floor for you while we're doing this. Or the other piece that we've done is back to back. So take part of the people off the floor for now and then take the next hour, take the other half and break it up into two.

Brenda Watson: 47:18

But the independent retailer has such a consultative role for their customer that their customer wants to talk to them. People want to talk to you about their health, especially if it's failed you know what I mean and they're having failure in it. They want to try. I do believe people do want to try to get better and I think the independent retailer this is kind of the crux of who we are is having that information and having employees have that information to be able to pass it on to the customer.

Amanda Ballard: 47:53

Yeah, so we're getting close to the end of our time here, and I wanted to ask you what are some of the things that you think that independent retailers need to be paying attention to over the next, you know, three to five years, as it relates to just the industry in general, but also just to the digestive category, since that's your, your area of expertise.

Brenda Watson: 48:14

Well, I think, overall, in general, they need to be finding ways and, like you were saying, trade shows. You know our trade shows have just become disastrous. I mean, expo East is pretty much gone or it's going to Colorado, and Expo West is so big the average person can't go to it. So I think what they need to be looking into as an independent retailer is what events are being put on where they can go in and travel and not pay a huge expense and get educated. They've got to watch out for that, you know, and keep that on their radar. Where you know the SIMPAs and the Health Fest and the Health Quest and all of these. Where can they go and get education? Where can they take advantage of companies like Vital Planet, who will put on an event, you know as a company, where they can travel to send their employees to and we absorb a lot of the cost for them. That needs to stay on their radar, absolutely on their radar. As far as looking forward, the number one thing I think that's really important is what we started talking about in the beginning is the pet industry, because if you go into, let's say, a PetSmart, they don't know an enzyme from a probiotic and most of the supplements in there are window dressing. There's nothing in them. So I think, developing that conversation with their customer cross-merchandising some of these supplements especially. You know, the number one selling supplement for pets is hip and joint and we've introduced the probiotics. So I think, looking on the horizon, what's new?

Brenda Watson: 49:50

Keeping the internet is good for a lot of things, you know. Looking at the trends, like right now, for example, I started in cleansing in 1989 or 1990 for myself and now I watch cleansing, go do-do-do-do-do. And then about 2008 and 2009, go do-do-do-do-do. I used to not walk into a health food store or any consumer that they didn't have a badge on that said have you cleansed? Ask me how Right? And that's coming back. See, that's a trend. And like, like I said, people are seeing it online. The things are seeing online. But they could go into a store and get more education on it. Watch the trends. All you need is a is a phone or an ipad to go on facebook or instagram or tiktok or whatever your whatever it may be, and just watch it. There's a lot of. I say there's a lot of information, a little knowledge. That's the way I look at it. Still, it's looking at the trends and following those trends.

Brenda Watson: 50:46

And then in digestive care, I think we're getting now into more knowledge about the human microbiome project and how science has moved along and, I think, coming up looking now at more innovative products. We're gaining awareness in postbiotics and we have a new one coming out with parabiotics, which is the new element of science coming along and being able, in digestive care, getting into motility issues and understanding the vagus nerve and all the things wrapped around motility and understanding the vagus nerve and all the things wrapped around motility, because a lot of the problems these people are having are like motility, where there's IBS and SIBO and all these conditions and being able to, you know, help people as we learn more. Then the formulas will be formulated through learning and the practitioners help us with that, you know, because they're in the trenches too with seeing consumers, and that's where my benefit comes from. I'm still in a functional medicine clinic all the time. You know what I mean. I'm seeing what's going on and I think with the digestive care category, we're just going to see more growth in specific formulas is what I'm saying.

Brenda Watson: 51:56

Specific formulas targeted with, you know, probiotics being more targeted, your motility issues being more targeted, your fibers, being more distinguished between what this fiber does and that fiber does and that fiber does, which we're currently working on, so it makes it easier for the consumer to pick something, especially in fiber, because it's so vital for us in moving forward. So I see digestive care growing. It's not going away, for sure, and it's not shrinking. It's definitely going to grow. But I think that area, but also that pet area, and us giving them some ideas on how to develop that, because they close their mind to it. You know, oh, I don't sell to pets, there's a PetSmart over there. Well, that PetSmart over there, guys, knows nothing, nothing and they don't even have a supplement over there they have treats.

Amanda Ballard: 52:53

That's the difference. Yeah Well, this has been absolutely fantastic. Brenda, I really really appreciate your spending your time with us today and would love to have you back on for another episode at a later date. This has just been absolutely fantastic, Everything that I thought it would be. You met my expectations and exceeded them, so thank you so much for your time.

Brenda Watson: 53:09

I love it. When I found out this is what I'm doing, I was like, oh okay, great, I'm so excited about this because this is really where my heart is, what you guys are doing. I love this and I think I've come from enough experience, from day one through my journey here, to be able to offer something you know to as well, to consumers as well as to the retailer out there. That's got to change. They have to change and change. We don't we don't like change, but it's the only thing on this planet that's constant, right, Yep absolutely, brenda.

Tina Smith: 53:41

This has been such a pleasure, and if someone did want to get into the pet category, I'm sure they now want to start with Vital Planet. So how do they get in touch with you?

Brenda Watson: 53:51

Well, you can go to vitalplanetcom and we have on the website pets and everything like that. You can call us, but mostly just go online and we'll be able to have someone help you with your pets and look at our supplements and we're getting innovative in those two, probably going to get organic with them A lot of things going on. So I thank you so much, ladies, for having me here. This was just really good for me. I really enjoyed this more than anything that I can tell you. I've really enjoyed this more than anything that I can tell you.

Tina Smith: 54:21

I've really enjoyed this Us too. It's so refreshing to hear manufacturers that are fully in support of this independent channel, and so we're delighted to have you.

Amanda Ballard: 54:30

Thanks so much for listening to the Natural Products Marketer Podcast. We hope you found this episode to be super helpful. Make sure you check out the show notes for any of those valuable resources that we mentioned on today's episode.

Tina Smith: 54:45

And, before you go, we would love for you to give us a review. Follow, like and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you're listening today, and make sure you join us for our next episode, where we give you more marketing tips so that you can reach more people and change more lives.