Tina Smith: 0:00

You just mentioned, like samples for the staff. What does help the staff really be able to highlight good products for other people? What motivates them to do that?

Lauren Gaffney: 0:12

Well, certainly when they've had the personal experience with it.

Tina Smith: 0:18

Welcome to the Natural Products Marketer Podcast.

Amanda Ballard: 0:21

I'm Tina and I'm Amanda and we're here to make marketing easier for natural products businesses, so you can reach more people and change more lives.

Tina Smith: 0:32

Hi there and welcome back to the natural products marketer podcast. And we are hopping in here today to do an intro to a conversation that we've already had, because we hopped right into the conversation. We were off screen and having a conversation and I was like we have to hit record right now because we're missing all the good information. So I hit record and it just it's a. It abruptly starts. So we wanted to do an introduction because we had Lauren and Alina from Mastell's, that's up in Minnesota, and what a great little store that they have running there. And I was so encouraged listening to two wonderful, very economically aware and capable women retailers that are coming to us from Minnesota. What were your thoughts, amanda?

Amanda Ballard: 1:28

I was just blown away by how successful they've been able to be in such a small location and I know that you were recently up at their store and they have like 800 square feet and it was just hopping. So I was really encouraged that you can be super successful even if you're limited by square footage. But they were just phenomenal people, Really just glad that we were able to sit down with them and learn what has led to their success.

Tina Smith: 1:55

Yeah, so fun and I think you're going to hear a lot of things. So this season we're talking to a lot of different retailers and we wanted to showcase the difference between a smaller store like that and how hugely successful they were. There were three or four people that were on the floor helping out from an employee perspective when I went in there and every single one of them was working with someone and there were people still coming in and out and grabbing things and getting a beverage and walking around. So, man, they were so busy and you can be super successful in a small location like that. And then we're talking to other people who have 5,000 square feet, 2,500 square feet. We've got a lot of different retailers that we're talking to, all of whom are very successful in their own ways and in their local communities, and you're going to be blown away by the very small things that you can do, small adjustments you can make and really have a big impact on your profitability.

Tina Smith: 2:52

So I cannot wait for you to hear this interview with Lauren and Alina from Mastel's. So let's dive in. Hi everyone, we're so excited to have you here today. We have Alina and Lauren from Mastell's. They are co-owners of Mastell's in Minnesota and I got to visit their store and we were just chatting before we started to hit record about how they've got a small store but it is full to the brim both with product and with people and they even have grocery, on top of the fact that they've got all these supplements in there, which is really hard to do in a smallish space. But we loved the vibe coming in there. So but I think that Amanda can kind of speak to that a little bit with Detweiler's, because that place gets packed out and people love it.

Amanda Ballard: 3:41

Yeah, I definitely think it is part of the appeal, right, like when you walk into a busy store and it like, even if you're limited in your square footage, if, like, it feels full, it's like an instant draw for people.

Tina Smith: 3:56

So, guys, will you just cover again for everyone listening, like what size is the store? How many people do you guys have in there all the time helping other people out, and what, what is that vibe? How many people do you guys have in there all the time helping other people out? And what is that vibe? What does it feel like?

Lauren Gaffney: 4:08

So we're just in a single brick and mortar and it's 800 square feet of sales space on the main floor and then in the basement we have our offices, backstock, quite a lot of backstock and a break room. We have, I think the last time I looked, 4,275 individual SKUs and so 80% of that is supplements. The rest is between grocery and personal care. So yeah, it kind of has to stay organized because otherwise it's just too hard to manage that much inventory coming in, checking in, going back stock, getting stocked out. So it's just too hard to manage that much inventory coming in, checking in, going back stock, getting stocked out. So it's definitely a machine that has to keep running to do all that in addition to serving the customers.

Amanda Ballard: 4:54

So tell us a little bit more about Mastell's and the store and how you guys got into it. And I'm also curious is that an original location?

Lauren Gaffney: 5:06

it is not. In 1968 we were on the same street but down about a mile, um, and then this building came available. It was an old furniture restoration shop and so, um, yeah, john, uh, from, I think, the original people who built the building and we actually know that family, um, so they can explain. We've talked to the son of the family. They've explained some of the goofy configuring up here. But, yeah, this been here since 1977 on the block.

Amanda Ballard: 5:38

So one thing that we always love to ask people that are on our show is how you got into the natural products world, because most people don't grow up thinking that they're going to. You know, sell supplements for a living, so I'd love to just hear your story of how you got into this industry.

Lauren Gaffney: 5:55

I actually went and grabbed my job application right before this just because I wanted to see what I wrote. So in 2002, I applied for a job here and it did say I was interested in a healthy lifestyle, but also close to my house and close to my school where I was going to college a couple blocks away, and that small business support even then evidently was important to me. So that was a 19-year-old me in 2002 getting a job here just part, part time after school, and it was. I mean, it was started at first but I just I fell in love with it and I think the thing that kept me interested was I love the connection with people and in retail you just get you get a new thing every day. You get new people that you talk to, you hear stories, you connect with people and I think that has kept it. In addition to all the other great things about the industry, I really really, really like the people aspect of it.

Alina Hornfeldt: 6:55

Yeah, and Lauren and I have been really close friends since about 2005. We met right when she came back from doing um abroad post-college work and was coming back until she got her job back here at Mestel's. At that point and we became friends and I guess I probably always have had sort of an interest in natural living, just sort of I don't my mother. It just seemed natural, um, I think in Minnesota the environment's really important. We're like the land of the co-ops. People always say so.

Alina Hornfeldt: 7:28

A lot of that really was kind of baked into our culture here too wasn't like an a weird thing or fringy as much, and so it was sort of natural to hear about what Lauren was doing here at the store. And I was working a lot of retail, both corporate, and also then got into more of the small business side and really loved that. And so in 2017, I had been a stay at home mom for a while. It was at a crossroads point in my life of what am I going to do now that he's going to school? And they needed someone to do social media and marketing because there hadn't really been a lot going on in that department for Mastell's, and so they're like why?

Lauren Gaffney: 8:06

don't you just come in and you can?

Alina Hornfeldt: 8:08

update the social media and I was like sure, no problem, That'll be great. And the kind of retail side of me took over from the management point of view and we kind of grew together and just kind of kept growing and evolving. And, yeah, the people helping people, of course I'm sure everyone says that is just so rewarding.

Tina Smith: 8:32

Well, I love the part of that. I love Alina is that Mastel's took a chance and I don't know, Lauren, if you hired Alina or if you just made a recommendation around that.

Lauren Gaffney: 8:45

Essentially, we created the department for her because, truly, like our advertising and everything, I had taken some time off when I was born also, and I came back after three and a half years in 2016. And went to the show in Anaheim in 2017. And so it was my first show back since, I think, 2011 or 12, either way, all of a sudden it was like, oh, we need an Instagram, like these brands, like they want to know all this. You know our advertising. At that point, I would design a coupon in Microsoft word and I would send it to the neighborhood newspaper and they would post it in Microsoft Word and I would send it to the neighborhood newspaper and they would post it. That was our advertising. That was it. And so it just all of a sudden it was like, nope, and we had a Facebook page. Nobody had updated it in years and I thought I was the purchasing manager at that point and we had a general manager and I just thought I can't take this whole thing on.

Lauren Gaffney: 9:43

And Alina was already way more savvy with social media, even just in her personal life. She was clued into it. She was. She's really, really good at picking up on trends, like across a lot of different industries. She's a. She's a. Is it a bellwether canary? How do you?

Alina Hornfeldt: 10:00

call that.

Lauren Gaffney: 10:04

Like she. Just she knows about things. You know, a lot of times she can scoop our brands before they even know, or you know the reps know she knows the brands have come out with new product and so either way, yeah, definitely created the position for her and that was all she needed to just take it and run with it and it turns out that, in addition to being really good friends, we work well together.

Alina Hornfeldt: 10:30

Yeah, it was risk.

Tina Smith: 10:30

We were like we don't know, we'll see Well, yeah, well. So maybe three things that I love about that. Number one Amanda and I are working together and we're friends, so we're hoping that all works out too right.

Tina Smith: 10:43

So that, but also so people need to follow you. If you are about weather, then they need to follow you and see what you guys are doing. I think that's a great idea and I do have people comment about well, did you see what Mastel's is doing? And so that's always fun. Can you create us something that looks like this Mastel's thing that's happening, or can we do something like that? So we do get requests around that. But I think the key for learning is that Mastel's took a chance in bringing someone in to do this specific job, because Amanda and I talk a lot about people want social media, maybe from us or maybe from another organization, but this type of business is very local and you need someone who's in the store, who can get the pulse and feeling of the community. Like Minnesota is going to be different. You're talking about all the things that are baked into that culture. It's going to be very different from the people down here in Georgia, and so it's definitely something to pull in a local person who can help with that for sure.

Alina Hornfeldt: 11:48

And now I've realized, even as, becoming a co-owner, it's starting to. I'm not really ready to like give it up yet, but like it is starting to be like, oh man, I don't really have time, I'm losing touch with some of that side of things as other jobs, abilities have taken over and it's like, well, maybe at some point it will be time for us to once again hire a person that's a dedicated social media person.

Amanda Ballard: 12:16

Yeah, yeah, no, I love that and you know I it sounds like you and I have similar stories where I was working at a local health food store and they just took a chance on me and it changed my life. So I totally resonate with that. So what led you guys to buy Mastel's? Tell us that story.

Lauren Gaffney: 12:32

We had, I guess, as of 2019, we were the two managers and the owner had retired right around when I started started 2002. So he had been pretty hands-off for almost 20 years. At that point, Um, and you know, I became GM in 20, the fall of 2019, six months later, the pandemic happened and you know, we we closed down for curbside and Alina and I would come in. We closed completely on Sundays, we shortened our hours and we would come in. We closed completely on Sundays, we shortened our hours and we'd come in on Sundays when the store was closed.

Lauren Gaffney: 13:08

And just how are we going to keep this place going? And, like through that extremely stressful time, realized how much this place meant to us, really no-transcript opportunity, the power, the desire to keep it going. So we basically had to figure out how to buy a business, which was it took every bit of almost two years, finding, you know, finding bankers, finding out that we needed bankers, finding out that you know, when you don't know what you don't know, type of a thing. And so we spent the next couple of years really coming up with a plan, presenting the offer to the family and, mostly, you know, giving them the peace of mind that that their uncle's place would be looked after. John was very, very, very happy with, you know, with the fact that it was going to be his legacy would be continued, and so his quote he his quote was that he felt like a grandpa, that like his, his baby, his business, you know, got to keep going and thrive.

Alina Hornfeldt: 14:35

and yeah, see it, its mission continue here in McElfin, so yeah.

Tina Smith: 14:43

So harder.

Alina Hornfeldt: 14:43

We have.

Lauren Gaffney: 14:43

We have 14 employees oh, quite a bit harder quite a bit harder, like really, really hard, like so many unknowns, so many meetings, so much of just like putting yourself out there.

Lauren Gaffney: 15:00

Um, and I had we're part of some independent business, local independent business groups around here, and I was in a breakout group from one of those and in a way, it was like we were just sort of training.

Lauren Gaffney: 15:12

You know, we were, we were acting business owners, we were joe mentions, even though we were technically just managers, and so we were kind of testing the waters and seeing like, yeah, this is something I really, really want to do. I want to be a part of the community in this even more meaningful way. We've recently joined our area chamber. That starts to get into things where you can have, like you know, influence in legislation that affects your business. We're talking about sales tax here in the metro area right now and having a voice for that, and so this is separate, really, from the health food entirely. But, just as business owners, I think we were both really motivated to step into this next phase of our life where we can truly, truly impact our community in a positive way and in a way that small business has the unique opportunity to be able to do.

Amanda Ballard: 16:02

Yeah, I love that, and I know that there are other people in our industry that are in similar situations where, you know, maybe the original owner, the founder of their health food store, is nearing retirement age and maybe they don't have kids that want to take on the business and all of that. So what, what advice would you give to other people out there like you that are interested in, you know, taking that step of faith and deciding that they want to carry the baton from the founder?

Alina Hornfeldt: 16:33

Yeah, I would say we definitely reached out to other small businesses in our neighborhood who had been through the process and we're like what'd you do? How'd you do that? You do that. And they're like, oh, we've got this guy steve, he knows all about this stuff. Let's give you his number. And we were like cool, thanks. And so it was a small, um independent art supply store. Uh, wet paint that's down from us. And those guys, uh, were invaluable. You know, that started was like that got that ball rolling.

Alina Hornfeldt: 17:05

Being involved in the Metro IBA, the Independent Business Association, is how we did find our banker, which was somebody that you are going to work really closely with and you want to feel really good about, because you are putting so much trust in them that they're guiding you through all the steps and it's so much paperwork and it is so overwhelming. So having someone that is calm and is pro and they know it and they've done it, was really awesome. So we found our banker, julie, through that group and kind of just even going off vibes that way too, being like I like how they make me feel Like I feel like I can trust them, I feel okay about this and just kind of one foot in front of the other and like let those people who've either understand the process or been through the process tell you what step is next. And then you just have to kind of trust from there, because you can't see 10 steps ahead. They can maybe, but you can't and you just have to be assembling paperwork or, you know, getting numbers together or or whatever.

Alina Hornfeldt: 18:04

And then the hardest part, I would say, was that we had to do it all in secret, which kind of was a bummer. We couldn't tell the employees what was, which was really really hard for us. I mean, we were having people build a building and we were having people and we had to be like oh, it's insurance, it's nothing, and that felt terrible, like we did not like having to keep it from our employees, but it is kind of a requirement, so kind of being prepared that like it's not like being deceptive, but if you are somebody who's really, you know, on a team with your employees, you kind of have to be prepared to have this big like 18 months, two years, and kind of be acting covertly and just mentally prepare for that. So when we were finally able to be like we did this thing, I hope you're happy. It's like really great when they were like, yay, we are so happy, but it is a weird feeling and a weird limbo place to be for a lot of reasons. So that was a part of the challenge.

Lauren Gaffney: 18:56

Yeah, because you don't know until the ink is dry. Things changed the night before with our alone that could have, could have changed the entire thing. And there's no door on the office down here. We are open the break. You know, the kitchen's right across the desk from us, so there wasn't a door that even closed. So we did a lot of walks, took a lot of walks, um, which was great for the steps all right.

Tina Smith: 19:22

Well, you guys are doing a great job because, like I said, the place was hopping whenever I got there. So tell us, outside of social media, biggest marketing things that you've done, even when you weren't owners. Like, if you remember some tactics that were key in moving the needle on increasing revenue and profitability, let us in spill the tea.

Alina Hornfeldt: 19:45

Yeah, some of them are really like simple and obvious, but worked really really well. That I started right away, which was like a sandwich board out front of the store, was huge and we could see it in the numbers even right away, like whatever I would put on that sandwich and say, Well, what is?

Alina Hornfeldt: 20:03

what is about mushrooms, what does that mean? And, like the conversation just started and it was like, wow, away, like whatever I would put on that sandwich and say, well, what is about mushrooms, what does that mean? And, like the conversation just started and it was like, wow, that's so cool and so easy. And we'd often have people on staff that like to draw or use a creative side. It was something that they could do during their day. That was a little bit different and, um, inspiring for them too.

Alina Hornfeldt: 20:21

And yeah, it's been really cool to see something so traditional, so simple and it like jazzes up your curb appeal and it's just really cute and kind of quaint for a small place like us. We had a lot of it. So we still make a point, as long as it's not raining or snowing, to get the sandwich board out. And we've made some kind of yard signs too sandwich board out. And we've made some kind of yard signs too and kind of rotate those around too. When we were able to bring in THC, we had a sign, obviously, that we've got this. So that was great.

Alina Hornfeldt: 20:52

And then we still do use direct mail coupons, which another traditional kind of advertising thing that our customers really like, and I've had new customers at the register say like I got this in the mail and I decided to come check you out and it's like, oh, that's cool. So those are some sort of like analog ways outside of social media, that like tried and true and the. You know direct mail is not crazy expensive compared to some other forms of advertising. And then we also always had a punch card going way, way back, where you know you spend $10, get a punch and you collect your punches on your little card and then turn it in for a discount at the end when it's full. And we switched it over to a digital.

Alina Hornfeldt: 21:36

This is one like kind of modern upgrade. We still offer the paper punch cards for anyone who prefers that, but so many people were happy to get the cards out of their wallets and into a phone number system, loyalty system with us that we kept track of their points and now we use it to. They can buy like swag with it with their points. They can buy a Mastell's t-shirt or a mug or they can use it for discounts. And even in our Google reviews people call out the loyalty program and I think these days, economically, how people can be in charge with coupons and discounts to maximize what they're getting. It's really important to the customers. So I would say those are a few ways that are outside of the realm of social media that we're finding are really effective.

Tina Smith: 22:21

I love that they can buy swag with the points. I haven't seen a lot of that happening, but wow, your customers, who are already loyal, are now your billboards. And they did it on their own, like they took something valuable that they had and they're buying your stuff. That's wonderful.

Lauren Gaffney: 22:37

I love that to a private label, just because our reputation was something that was worthy of the Mastel's name and I think it was probably 2018, around. Then one of our reps from a former company worked with Reliance and we found them to be. They just they ticked all the boxes. They carry a lot of the same patented name brand ingredients that you'll find in national brands, and I liked the idea of having the private label not be the least expensive generic on the shelf. It is in.

Lauren Gaffney: 23:22

In a lot of cases it's sitting side by side a national brand and we can tell the people they're buying their materials from the same place.

Lauren Gaffney: 23:29

And so we have found that people, and you know, if they're only buying the private label for one particular product, then it's a very, very easy for them to switch. You know all of their stuff their minerals, their, you know, fish oils, everything like that. They're like oh well, I can just get that in the Mastell's brand because I've already had something from that brand that I really like, and so then we know, from our perspective, they can't buy it anywhere else, you know, so we don't have to worry about trying to price compete online with stuff like that, and so I just felt really fortunate that we were able to find a brand that was worthy of our reputation and that it wasn't going to be just the generic. It was going to really kind of be like these are the ones that we stand behind enough to put our own name on, and so we've really enjoyed working with them and we're growing that line all the time.

Alina Hornfeldt: 24:20

And we just recently expanded to essential oils. Oh, I was going to say yeah, we expanded to essential oils also with a local company, um in our private label in our private label and that's been really cool to see that just growing little branches off of it and the customers really responding to it. That's cool.

Amanda Ballard: 24:38

Yeah, that's great. I know, Um, yeah, historically, a lot of people that end up doing private label. It does end up almost by default being the cheaper option or the cheapest option, and it's interesting to me that that's not necessarily the case for you. I actually really like that approach because it shows like this isn't just a budget friendly line and there probably is some cost savings between you and like a national brand, but if it's close, it's like oh well, this is like really good quality. It's like just like a subtle marketing hack that you know the customer doesn't necessarily realize until after they've made that purchase. So I think that's really interesting. And then, from a profitability standpoint, have you found that your margins are significantly higher on the private label?

Amanda Ballard: 25:26

It's the brand recognition.

Alina Hornfeldt: 25:27

It's the brand, yeah, so important and we've made an effort.

Alina Hornfeldt: 25:30

I took over the role of designing some of the color and font choices, things like that and really keeping it all cohesive with the store.

Alina Hornfeldt: 25:40

And we have like a branding style guide that I use, that I have up at my desk and I refer to it for when I'm making those choices. And if you have like a branding style guide that I use, that I have up at my desk and I refer to it for when I'm making those choices, and if you have like a color palette or a branding story that you're using throughout your store to really like lean and as long as you like it maybe it's a time to reevaluate that, but if you really like it, lean on it. So ours are like a sage green color and sort of using that in the private label, in our marketing materials, even in like our t-shirts and mugs and things that we're doing, so that everything kind of flows and you get your mastels sort of feeling even when they're sitting on your shelf. It feels like mastels, it looks like mastels and hopefully it makes them feel happy and like they want to come back to mastels and keep shopping.

Tina Smith: 26:27

Yeah. So what do you guys see like coming down the pike for marketing, for you guys Like what's next that maybe you haven't done before, or that you're going to put extra effort into?

Alina Hornfeldt: 26:39

Well, we've talked about a bus bench, that we'd really like to do that, but we haven't found one.

Lauren Gaffney: 26:44

I really want to be that's all real estate agents and I really, really, really want one for MassTel.

Alina Hornfeldt: 26:50

Just because we don't sell online. We're really so hyper local that we've I was like you know it doesn't going viral, you know, fun and interesting and entertaining, but it's definitely not a priority for us. We're a brick and mortar store doesn't sell online. We need people in Minneapolis St Paul, twin Cities area to find out who we are and want to come into the door. So some really hyper local advertising that way, which, yeah, physical advertising.

Alina Hornfeldt: 27:16

But then we're just deciding now to partner with a local radio station that's independent that plays 60s, 70s and a little bit of 80s classic hits and they're really cute and really fun and they have a better value for radio advertising than we've found through like iHeartMedia or big national places. So we're really excited to partner with another small kind of independent radio station and do some commercials with them, kind of speaking right, hopefully, to our people, kind of leaning on that whole independent thing and supporting each other has been nothing for us. Every time we've done it, every time we lead with that. It's always been the best vision, really been the best vision really.

Amanda Ballard: 28:05

I love that you kind of have, like you just understand your, your vision for your store so well. Like cause I. It's so refreshing to hear like we're hyper local and so why would I care about, like you know, someone like me who lives in Florida following us? It's like, yeah, sure, like you know, followers are great, but it's like it's not going to necessarily make an impact on my bottom line. So I love that you're hyper-focused on local. I think that's really, really smart.

Tina Smith: 28:33

Yeah, and I like going back to. I love the analog pieces that you guys were talking about earlier. A lot of the people in this independent community they don't have a huge budget right now for marketing and if they're going to make a difference in their revenue and profitability in order to reinvest, they need some of these ideas of hey, here's some low hanging fruit that can really make a difference. We were talking to a store the other day. We did a couple of very minor things that cost almost nothing for them and they've seen an increase in revenue. Almost nothing for them and they've seen an increase in revenue. And it's just crazy how there's all of these opportunities to do little things to make a really big difference in your pocket. Okay, so I guess what is one of the best decisions you made to help grow the business, either before or after you guys became the owners outside of marketing?

Lauren Gaffney: 29:31

became the owners outside of marketing I pretty unequivocally could say joining Infra. We had not been eligible to join Infra just based on our supplement to grocery ratio. They made some changes about a year and a half ago that their board decided they wanted to try and attract more of stores like us, the supplement heavy stores. They're based here in St Paul too and so you know they're. They're right here, they can come right over to the store. So we went through the onboarding you know the application and onboarding process with them and I didn't really understand how beneficial it would be until we started being able to take advantage of some of their benefits.

Lauren Gaffney: 30:10

The difference in pricing with Kehi was just astonishing to me. We had always, because we didn't sell a lot of grocery. We've always paid absolutely full, wholesale, no discounts from Kehi or UNFI ever, and so the first time I saw things coming in that we were actually going to have a margin in grocery, it just blew my mind. And then there's a message board that they have that's a bunch of stores like us, independent stores. We are in the land of the co-op. I think there's only maybe two other infra stores in Minnesota, and so getting to see on a message board and interact with people who are dealing with the same type of things that we are. It just immediately felt like we were plugged into a community, where we weren't just out here on our own trying to figure this all out. For the time, that feeling and that support has been invaluable.

Alina Hornfeldt: 31:08

Yeah, and I would say, just as our owner previously was, you know, in his twilight years, elder years, he had been hired for 20 years. He had moved on to other passions and his orchard and things like that um, we, more and more, we're just getting out there soho show, um, interacting with people, uh, kind of introducing ourselves to the sort of national network of health food stores and like meeting you guys. It's like we had a table together at soho for breakfast and it was like, oh wait, I know who you. I've heard your podcast, Like that's so cool and it has just led to more opportunities and more collaborations and felt really good, like we are a part of something bigger. And that's a really cool feeling and keeps you motivated, coming in every day when you have a cranky customer or something and you're like just being able to, you know, have a message board or have people yet in the industry that you can lean on and they know where you're coming from and it just feels. It feels really good.

Tina Smith: 32:18

Yeah, being a business owner is a lonely life sometimes, and two things that you guys were talking about both community just now within the natural products industry, but also that you heavily leaned. You do, but you've got to also get the the fresh information from outside of our little bubble in our world here and um. So it's amazing that you guys you you've done so well and I do think that you know reaching out and networking and being part of these communities has probably been a great idea for your growth and been very helpful. I can only imagine yeah, for sure.

Lauren Gaffney: 33:11

And if you have any chance to do it with your best friend, that really helps.

Tina Smith: 33:18

That's awesome. Okay, well, guys, thank you so much for being with us. We're coming to the close of the episode here, but we do typically ask some standard questions and I usually let Amanda do it. Are you prepared, amanda, with the question? She's doing that because she knows I'm never prepared with the question, so I'm very grateful that she's my detailed person behind me, so.

Amanda Ballard: 33:46

I'm very grateful that she's my detailed person behind me. So, okay, one of our standard questions is who do you like to pay attention to in the industry and outside of the industry, to stay on top of all of the marketing trends, on top of just how to be a better business owner?

Alina Hornfeldt: 34:05

I like to be active on LinkedIn a lot. Actually, I would say is big com, and I know in reading and I actually have a lot of newsletters that I get. There is a woman now I see I don't know her name, I'm terrible with names Melanie from unwell has a newsletter, pretty sure, like a sub stack. That's really interesting. I think her book was the Gospel of Wellness. You guys can back check that for me. But she has really interesting take on keeping things scientific and kind of holding the industry accountable, which I really like.

Alina Hornfeldt: 34:41

But then also, yeah, LinkedIn, I kind of follow everybody that I can on there in the industry because I think people are just kind of approaching that social media with such a different communication, collaboration vibe, as a and like kind of this is what's happening and what they're excited about about what's going on in their lives, in a different way than facebook or instagram is more about like I am showing you a glossy billboard of stuff or I'm advertising, whereas LinkedIn is a little more raw, a little more but, you know, still polite, I guess as well too, which I really like. It's not political Usually it's not, you know about your kid even or you know, oftentimes it's really it is work focused. And they do say that the regenerating folks are really interested in LinkedIn as a social platform as well, so I'm really interested they are using it. That's a rambling answer. That's pretty good. I actually like to.

Lauren Gaffney: 35:38

I, yeah, I read a lot of the local papers, the neighborhood papers, our local city. I like to see the news that our customers are reading, just to kind of get the vibe and keep the pulse of the community, just to see what's being reported on, what's being called out. I mean, certainly if it has anything to do with vitamins and supplements you know we see those articles come out around but just to read what I assume that a lot of the people in the neighborhood are looking at, so that we can stay current and understand the type of news that they're looking at.

Tina Smith: 36:16

That's so important too, because being an independent retailer it is again. We talk about it all the time. It's so local and the big boxes, the Whole Foods and even the Sprouts of the world they cannot cater to the needs of the local community the same way that you guys can. So staying abreast of what's happening makes all the sense in the world, and I have not heard anyone give us that answer yet. So that's insightful and I love it, yeah.

Amanda Ballard: 36:49

So kind of going back to the marketing side of things, what do you think that most people in the natural products industry would want to change about marketing?

Alina Hornfeldt: 37:00

They probably want to get rid of TikTok.

Alina Hornfeldt: 37:03

It's what they would want to do if they could, just because it's so frustrating, even for brands. I always really empathize with the come blow up on TikTok because they're not ready and it's like, oh, it's a dream come true. And it's like, maybe, if you have a backstop of millions of items somewhere that, like you, were super uncool and had way too much product and all of a sudden something blew you up and it worked out perfectly for you that is most often not the case. It seems like it's smaller brands or heritage brands operating on a space for a long time and then all of a sudden they just cannot keep up and then their social media is flooded with like, oh, I just feel for them. I'm like, I'm so sorry like people are. When people come to us and I can't get it, I can say I'm sorry it blew up, it was tiktok, and be like oh, yeah, okay, but yeah, when you're the brand itself, it's just so um, and just the misinformation is really sad to like come and luckily we are in a really position to uh, work with people one-on-one and, you know, kind of dissuade them from certain things.

Alina Hornfeldt: 38:17

Not official for them like, yeah, I mean, that's cool, it's fun, chlorophyll in your water and if you're going to altitude, like that's a great idea, but like if you're just sitting around in the office, it's maybe not what you need to have, but what you know is it energy, what are you looking to and what are the other um stuff to talk to you about? So it's a fun way that it brings people into the store. But yeah, if I could actually get rid of it, I probably would, just for the health stuff. It's fun for other things. Dances are great.

Amanda Ballard: 38:50

Oh, I love that. So what do you think is going to be like the most um challenging thing that our industry is going to face over the next three to five years?

Alina Hornfeldt: 39:08

I could see it going in a new age direction, that where there's kind of sometimes do see the overlap with, like, the metaphysical and new age and the wellness industry, which can be really cool and a really awesome avenue for people to work on themselves and work with a practitioner to solve some of the issues if they are of a spiritual or emotional nature. But it can also like turn in that like snake oily side of things, where people are just taking advantage of lonely people or isolated people or people who are suffering and all of a sudden they have these miracle spiritual elixirs that have crystals or this or that in them and I feel like it's almost like a 1970s, 60s, 70s resurgence of some of that kind of stuff where we learned a lot. It's a double-edged sword. I guess we learned a lot and did see a lot of things that were really beneficial and I think we will see that.

Alina Hornfeldt: 40:09

But there is that like sort of dark side and sometimes we have heard I mean me when I talk about what I do every once in a while you get that person who's like oh, supplements, you know they're all bad, like that's. You're just taking advantage of people, selling them things they don't need and it's like, well, no, we really try to be a very science-based and um um. You know, let other people be kind of the um, the experts on some of the more new age and metaphysical um options that are out there and leave the scientific supplement side to us. But hopefully, yeah, we don't see that sort of dark side, kind of taint put a cloud over the industry.

Lauren Gaffney: 40:53

Yeah, and I've been keeping an eye on the Council for Responsible Nutrition through the various subscriptions we have, just keeping an eye on what's going on in Washington with regulations and really wanting to see the industry regulated well to keep bad actors out and to not unnecessarily burden companies that are doing things the right way, and so just hoping that our lobbies are strong enough to keep our access to supplements as good or better than you know the way that we have it. And so, yeah, just keeping an eye sort of at that government, washington level, what's happening with regulations and Dachet and things like that.

Tina Smith: 41:41

Yes and thank you. Please keep doing that, we need it.

Amanda Ballard: 41:46

So what do you think is some low hanging fruit that independent health food stores like you can take a hold of and get some quick wins in their businesses today?

Alina Hornfeldt: 41:58

I guess you could check in with your staff and see if there's anything that they would love to be doing. Not doing a sandwich board earlier, like a sidewalk chalk, and yeah, like doing this board and letting people get creative. A window display I remember, even in corporate retail, being really excited when I got to do a display, like really excited that I got to set the whole display myself and be kind of in charge of that. And so, definitely using your people if you're having a staff meeting or expressed like I'm in art school or I've studied graphic design, you know um sort of letting people's creativity come out and like, yeah, use that because, um, that's priceless people's creativity, that they can. You know everyone responds to a fun chalk art on the sidewalk out in front of the store everyone.

Amanda Ballard: 42:48

It makes everyone smile, it's it's a great, you know, break for them to get outside and I think it's morale too and it really doesn't cost you anything extra so, lastly, do you have any vendors that you absolutely love working with um that support you guys really well, and why do you have any vendors that you absolutely love working with that support you guys really well, and why do you love them?

Lauren Gaffney: 43:10

Let's see. We have a lot, just some that come right to the top of mind. True Grace, brian and Christy's company that they started during the pandemic, pretty much as soon as it came out, went to the top of our shelves. It's just two people who kind of they created like the supplement company of their dreams, you know, and that's every. It's like they got to pick the best ingredients, do right by everything. Their investment in regenerative agriculture is unprecedented and I hope it just. We can super confidently sell their products. They are top quality and that we're supporting down the line. Other missions dealt with and I just heard this morning they're going to be coming through town doing a dinner training. They hook us up all the time and so they're just a delight to work for as a, as a small company, though just really, really great.

Alina Hornfeldt: 44:13

Let's see, wow, do we like? I'm looking at my supplements behind me to see I would say I still love now foods. They're like local to us over in chicago and I've always been, yeah, super awesome with staff samples, which is huge for letting people have a chance to try, and they've been. They kind of grew up with us, um, in the whole industry. They started the same year as we did um, so when they had their 50th anniversary they kind of had a little shout out to Mastel's with a picture of John with all the now supplements behind him in the background.

Alina Hornfeldt: 44:50

And there was a few years ago I got to go tour their facility and just see their labs and how they manufacture the product. And it's just really, um, to see them like what. They're using their power as a kind of mid-sized large company to keep the industry in check and like, make sure that you know some of the amazon actors and things and you know checking to see what's in those bottles. And it helps us on the sales floor to say like, hey, this company you know, yeah, you can buy it on Amazon for cheaper, but are you going to get what you think you're getting? It's pretty much showing up that it's able, like you can take that risk, but I can tell you that this supplement is what it says it is, if you're buying it from me.

Lauren Gaffney: 45:39

Yeah, that 30 test testing that they're doing on supplements that they buy off Amazon has been, and then they send us the results and we print them out and we post them so that we can point to people. And it's like you know, if you, if you want to spend, save the $5 and spend your money here, just it's a it might be a get what you pay for situation, and so they've supported us well in that.

Tina Smith: 46:00

Yeah, well, kind of speaking of that you just mentioned, like samples for the staff. What does help the staff really be able to highlight good products for other people? What motivates them to do?

Lauren Gaffney: 46:15

that had the personal experience with it.

Lauren Gaffney: 46:19

I mean, especially when you're starting out or if you you know, maybe you're in a section that you're not super familiar with, but you know that that's the immune supplement that you take and that's the one that you rely on.

Lauren Gaffney: 46:30

That's going to be the easiest one to sell to a customer because you can give your own personal story about it. And so if companies are generous with their, with their samples, they can get you know the staff taking the products. It's not a guarantee, but it's pretty dang close that that's going to be the one that they're going to pick when they're in an aisle with, you know, maybe 10, 12 different options. And so that I have always seen is just the mark of a company that knows what they're doing is the one that is generous with their staff samples. And it's not just that we, what they're doing is the one that is generous with their staff samples. And it's not just that we're greedy and want all the stuff for free, it's truly, I think it's one of on their part. One of the best sales techniques that they can have is get people taking their products on the staff and trainings oh, and trainings.

Alina Hornfeldt: 47:16

yeah, I would say in-person trainings. You know there's kind of a tiered level of different kinds of trainings. I mean expert voice some, and our staff loves that and it's a way they can earn samples, earned and learned. But also when a national educator kind of makes the rounds and comes in and we can, our staff can ask all the hard-hitting questions and they can really dig in deep at our knowledge level and explain why and their story and that always makes a huge. I mean, every time there's a training, that product line is getting a bump in sales, always every single time In the weeks after it just went up, because all that information is fresh in the mind and the employees are excited and they probably got a free product that they're trying and it just works really well. So we're hoping that more and more of that keeps coming back. Obviously, the pandemic put a little dent in that, but we are seeing it more and more and it really does make a huge difference for sure.

Amanda Ballard: 48:22

Awesome. Well, thank you, ladies, so much for being with us today. We really appreciate your time and uh to our listeners out there. If you're ever in the Minneapolis St Paul area, make sure to stop by Mastell's.

Tina Smith: 48:35

Yeah, it's a great store, Plus, we just like you guys. Oh, thanks so much for having us.

Alina Hornfeldt: 48:41

Yeah, thanks for having us.